Hosting it's one of those tasks that doesn't seem very popular.  I hosted through vanilla and into the begining of BC, Hawk has hosted from BC through this week.  Starting this week, McHawkman will be joining me in retirement.  I thank him for the excelent job he has done drumming participation and providing a variety of events to attend. 

As some of you may have noticed, this week Taur has posted 4 runs (undetermined destination) on the in-game calendar.  We have not determined if we will continue using the in game calendar or the one here at the website for future use.  I will be opening it up for vote this week and closing the vote at the end of the month. 

The calendar here at the web site has been enabled (for months now) for Squire on up to host events.  I hope some of you find a use for it.  The ingame calendar is set up similarly.  I will be moving some individuals in and out of ranks to facilitate using the in-game calendar efficiently.

Happy gaming

    - Cyn

There are so many other people in this guild who think things through more thoroughly than I do, that it makes me take a long pause before posting. I always feel like someone has either said it better, or with better reasoning. But, I'm just sharing an opinion here so feel free to ignore me  :)

I like raiding in 10-mans: I like the socializing, the interesting fights, and even the practice runs while we learn. 25-man runs are fun as well, but with such a large group the easy, relaxed atmosphere is missing for me. I still enjoy them and I know they can be necessary for phat lootz, but I enjoy the 10-mans more.

I've never hosted a raid and am frankly terrified at the idea. And I admit that I have been complacent -- relying on others to put together everything for me. But if the goal is to get a raid scheduled, and it is OK to delegate things like fight explanations, in-fight commands, and master looter, then I think I can handle that. But I cannot heal and do all the raid leader stuff too. I don't mind giving healer assignments, either, if the healers are OK with me telling them what to do. Sar and I talked about delegation, and I feel that jobs like that could be assigned at the time the raid is scheduled, rather than when the raid starts. I understand that some people would decline or that things might have to be adjusted at raid-time, but at least we would be taking a proactive step.

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I think both calendars have their pros and cons.

Please feel free to add to this or tell me I'm dead wrong, and I KNOW I've probably missed something in here.

I personally like the idea of the in-game calendar:

• pro: you can selectively invite people to a raid, knowing they are geared and capable.
• pro: you can mass-invite everyone in the guild if you feel like it
• pro: every time you log in, you have a visual clue that a new event has been posted and that you have been invited. No more "oh, i didn't know that was posted."
• con: people will complain about not being invited
  
  • if you weren't invited, understand that there WAS a reason, so be nice if you feel you should ask why. But if you feel you're geared, don't be afraid to ask
  • if you didn't invite someone and they ask why, you have your reasons, but be 1) able to explain why, and 2) open to inviting someone.

I like the website calendar:

• pro: I can get to it from anywhere, so Sar can text me during the day and say "sign up, you!"
• con: There doesn't appear to be a limitation on who can sign up. This causes problems, because people sign up, expect to go, and then get upset because they're told they're undergeared.

Onex,

• pro: I can get to it from anywhere, so Sar can text me during the day and say "sign up, you!"

This can also be done for the in-game calendar, assuming you can access the WoW website (i.e. not blocked by a company firewall, etc.).  If you go to the WoW Armory, and log into your character, there is a button at the top which says "Calendar".  As long as you are logged in (which if you aren't it will show a little 'locked' icon), you can then access the in-game calendar there and sign up, see events, etc., the same as if you are in-game.

There are definately pros-cons for either calendar.  I sometimes think folks tend to overlook the in-game calendar, but my own experience is they also forget to check the website calendar too.  I think the biggest issue with either calendar is getting folks to understand that any given 10 man raid only has 10 open spots, and that if you don't get to come on a raid it is because there is a reason, and not some arbitrary act.  25 man raids allow more folks to come (obviously), but we don't seem to have the numbers to do those atm.

Peace,
Hawk

My hypothesis is that for the 10 man runs that require more dedication, the website posting is a better idea.  For an attempt at 25 man raids, I think the in-game calendar is best.  Only time will tell.



Edited by Sarcasticus at October 22nd, 2009 - 5:27 pm

Edited by Sarcasticus at October 22nd, 2009 - 5:28 pm

I had completely forgotten about the Armory.. Thanks for the reminder!

 I like the in-game calendar for several of the reasons others have mentioned; chiefly, it is convenient for me to respond and I do get notified of new events.

The selective formation of raid parties may foster an elite cadre of well-equipped toons which will tend to be self-perpetuating; those who are chosen will tend to become even more attractive choices over time as they gain better gear as a result of those runs.  That may be an effective strategy for the guild to advance through Ulduar and 10-man ToC; it may also leave the remainder of the guild on their own to attempt to advance.  I'm afraid I have mixed feelings on that score.

Thank you for cutting straight to the point Wealth.  One of the reasons we've had open registration for the runs is to prevent the perception of a "select group" receiving perferential treatment on the raid calendar.  The problem is that becuase we have the open calendar we frequently find ourselves trying to approach new content with individuals who are utterly unprepared - gear, experience, perfomance, etc...   This stops us from being able to progress beyond the "check-points" in the game. 

What is being discussed is a slight modification to the way we populate runs.   We will still have open runs but there will be runs that are going to be selectively populated (not by the date signed up).  Idealy those runs will be populated by players who have shown that they know the mechanics of the fights, whose performance via the meters show they have consistantly contributed 2k or better dps in Uldar  (Trial 3k or better dps), and have shown themselves as capable of adapting to a fluid situation.  Once the new content has been mastered to the extent that we are confident we can successfully complete the fight with less than 10 individuals at max contribution - then we will open the sign up. 

As we are not currently persuing progression raiding in the 25 man format, we are not discussing altering the raid population criteria for 25 man runs.  If we are lucky enough to have enough individuals registered and confirmed for a raid to populate a 25 man run we will revist content like Naxx or Uldar Formation Grounds.

Looking forward to Icecrown and the concern that certain individuals may not be able to gear effectively for that raid content  - and be left "further behind".  Please keep in mind that you can gear for the T9 set entirely through badges earned in the daily heroic.  May I suggest that those individuals wishing to refine their preformance and get a jump start on gear do the heroic daily. 

Edited by Cienwen at October 26th, 2009 - 5:16 am

Thank you, Cien, for that well-thought out and articulate reply.  On reflection, I think this approach really is best all around.  Everyone will be spared hours of fruitless fighting and expensive repairs while the most able develop their expertise (well, they may still experience some expense - perhaps we should establish a slush fund), and then, those who have fought their way to victory can lead the rest.  I shall be patient.

I was reading this thread (and the post on the front page) and had some thoughts.   Hawk is absolutely right.  Personally, I have really been feeling like a hindrance to the group.  My healing sucks.  My dps is worse.   So I just stopped going.   But as Cyn said on a previous post in this thread, all that did was put me further behind and feel even more frustrated.   So, I leveled an alt.  (Kinda a nice side effect to frustration, but I digress!)

As Hawk said, the badges and dailies are set up for a reason.   And the reason is to get better gear to move into higher end places with our friends.   So, I have been making an effort to take Piva along on the dailies.   And I've even taken Cameo a few times also (/shudder).

Hawk and Cyn are right on the mark here.  There are enough of us that need the badges and gear to move forward with the group, it should be no problem getting guild runs.  I know I'm game! 

There are so many ways for folks to gear up. 

1.  Running H ToC and the Heroic Daily should be on everyone's list.

2.  Many Ulduar and ToC patterns are on the AH for cheap.  They cost orbs which keep coming down in price.  The ToC patterns cost Crusader Orbs which are pricey now but won't be for long.  Once 3.3 comes out, emblems of Triumph will be the drop everywhere.  Since you can purchase Crusader Orbs with these emblems, there will be more on the AH and the prices will come down. 

3.  PuG's -- I know we all hate them, but they can really be profitable.

I know there's a lot to be said for people gearing up on their own, through pugs, purchases, heroics, etc.  But I know a lot of folks are uncomfortable with unknown folks, hence their reluctance to go out on pugs and deal with harassment.  I would encourage everyone to hop on guild and ask for runs, either for gear or for fun.  Most nights there are 5-mans running here and there, and usually people will be interested in doing a little Half-hour or 45 minute excursion, especially if it happens to be the daily.

I am also going to start trying to schedule runs into other raid instances, and want to include those folks who may be worried about their gear.  I can't promise that everyone will get to go on every run, but I will try to work the groupings so that everyone will eventually get a chance to see the instances.  The scheduling of these will fluctuate a bit with my work schedule (as with everyone else's), but I'm hoping to get some started next week.

I will be asking some of our regular raiders to help out on these, and hope that they will be willing to work with the trial and error it may take to teach some folks the fights.  Obviously we can't take fresh 80s into ToC10, but with a good collection of folks, we could certainly take 2-3 folks who haven't been there and show them a few fights.

I would encourage folks not to get discouraged--we are working on ways to get more people into the raiding experience.  It just may take a bit of patience since we don't have enough folks to really fiil out a 25-man and do them every week.

I think part of the problem Dana is mental. Running pugs with bad tanks you'd get aggro just from healing and die so I sense you'd get apprehensive about healing early. Druids need to precast and get those hots rolling since they aren't direct (like paladin for example) heals. Maybe I'm reading that wrong though it's just a guess. I get mental issues when arguing with terribads in battlegrounds. Makes me lose faith in humanity sometimes lol! Helpful tip, you can still precast and get hots rolling early just shadowmeld right away and they'll stick on the tank inititally(or another healer BOOYAH). If you get healing aggro after that well the tank needs to go back to tank school :-p As for Moonkin dps bug me to take you to a target dummy sometime and I'll bring my druid and show you some spell rotations.

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What Sar said is very true, unless you're wearing 4pc t9 already the daily heroic should be run EVERYDAY on your main. In fact even if you have 4pc t9 you can still get other upgrades from the badges and gems. One heroic is quick and easy. 5 Toc and ToC 10 drops those badges and is clearable on normal with a group that is paying attention. Read up on the fights before hand if you haven't also watch videos there's plenty out there. I usually run a few on the weekend and try to get a few bsrm in. VoA 10/25 also drops T9 and some T8 might be an upgrade for some also it's random but it can happen, it won't drop them for sure if you don't go though.

I know my view of mains is generally different from BSRM's view of them and that's cool (I love my alts too) but I'd suggest if the goal is gearing up for raid content to focus on one toon that you mostly want to raid with for a bit until it's up to par. A guildie of mine leveled up a warlock recently, within two weeks of hitting 80 he's pumping out 4-5k+ dps and is in mostly epics. It can be done these days relatively easy.